148 replies to this topic

[Glythe]

One of my friends was not having any fun in this game and decided he was resetting his Elo to zero. He went into games with extremely low armor an XL engine and ammo in funny places. Considering that the MM considers all your mechs of a class as the same Elo you can basically suicide bomb rush the enemy with mediums or lights. You can't really rush in assault mechs but you can shamble into the PPCs well enough. How do you know when you've hit zero? The enemy has trouble killing you when you have 10% armor and are loaded up with explosive ammunition for weapons you can't use.


You've told us repeatedly that a stat wipe is coming. Can we get an Elo wipe too? [redacted]

Now granted the Elo system should disappear and never come back. When it works it's not half bad but unfortunately it seems to make most matches end in a landslide when it fails to work. The working to failing ratio seems to be about 1:9 unless you are playing in prime time and then it's only about 1:3

Apparently zombies have taken over the earth and they are playing Mechwarrior Online. I know this because the match maker keeps putting them on my team. Dropping with 4 great players means you get matched against 8 good players and the rest of your team are said zombies.

If you want a leg up in the next tournament (lol not that I'd bother to participate in such poorly planned events) but you would have a serious advantage if you reset your Elo to zero.

Edited by miSs, 13 March 2013 - 11:10 AM.
inappropriate reference

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

Leave my people out of this.

[Kobold]

People who want easy games shouldn't be playing against other people. Find a single player game, set it to "Beginner" difficulty, and maybe turn on god mode and infinite ammo. Your friend will be happier that way.

[FerretGR]

So basically, your friend started running into competition, and now he's not having fun?

I have yet to see an Elo complaint (other than the mismatched weight classes, for which a tweak is coming) that doesn't boil down to this.

[Glythe]

I don't want easy games I want fair games. It's almost impossible to win with a group of 4 high ranked players (who are actually as good as their Elo) if you repeatedly do not get matched against equal enemies. The game compensates with 4 scrubs and puts you against 8 players who are all pretty good. If you can only play during off hours this is a huge problem because you never get 16 similarly skilled players and a mismatch occurs game after game.....

Not matching the weight is ridiculous as well. Yea it will be fixed later... but the current state of the game is ruined with Elo and failing match maker.

FerretGR, on 13 March 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

I have yet to see an Elo complaint (other than the mismatched weight classes, for which a tweak is coming) that doesn't boil down to this.

If you have 4 good players and 4 players who might as well not exist then the game is more like 4 on 8 and I really don't think the best 4 players of this entire game could take on those odds. I guarantee you that 8 average players with mid-low Elo will trump the top 4 players. Why? because they're smart enough to realize if they are only fighting 4 people those guys are going to be fantastic.

This is the OTHER valid Elo complaint.

Edited by Glythe, 13 March 2013 - 08:08 AM.

[BillyM]

Your friend realizes that his ELO score cannot go down, right? All he has done is wasted a bunch of time for nothing but to negatively impact his team as a whole and ruin the game for everyone.

--billyM

Edited by BillyM, 13 March 2013 - 08:05 AM.

[kalami]

Glythe, on 13 March 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

I don't want easy games I want fair games. It's almost impossible to win with a group of 4 high ranked players (who are actually as good as their Elo) if you repeatedly do not get matched against equal enemies. The game compensates with 4 scrubs and puts you against 8 players who are all pretty good. If you can only play during off hours this is a huge problem because you never get 16 similarly skilled players and a mismatch occurs.

Not matching the weight is ridiculous as well. Yea it will be fixed later... but the current state of the game is ruined with Elo and failing match maker.




If you have 4 good players and 4 players who might as well not exist then the game is more like 4 on 8 and I really don't think the best 4 players of this entire game could take on those odds. I guarantee you that 8 average players with mid-low Elo will trump the top 4 players. Why? because they're smart enough to realize if they are only fighting 4 people those guys are going to be fantastic.

Thats interesting; it sounds like im grouped with the 8 "pretty good" players against the 4mans in most cases. I do know that it seems at least 2 or 3 people from either side go out really quickly and then the "real" battle seems to start in some matches; but even with that it comes down to the last 2 or 3 in my experience.

What are you actual stats of W/L? Is it as bad as you think it is?

[Flyby215]

Perhaps your friend's problem is with his expectations? Being a multiplayer game, you can't win every match because someone always has to lose. If elo is doing it's job, you should have about a 50/50 split. For former pugstompers this is going to be hard to accept, for PUGers this is a massive improvement.

On a personal experience note, I've already put up a post under feedback regarding matches with my brother, who was brand new at the game. When I grouped with him, for the first time ever since elo, I had several people still learning the controls of the game on my team, but none on the opposing team; and we got owned, repeatedly. It felt as though my teammates were on par with my brother's low elo, and our opponents were of my usual elo bracket. As soon as I went back to solo play, skilled teammates returned. When he returned to solo play, newbie enemies returned as well. Wondering if maybe this is the same problem you/your friend is encountering?

[Sayyid]

Honestly the best way to deal with the ELO is make it visable.

I often dont care what my K/D ratio is or how much damage I have done, just how much money I made and how much XP I gained.

Seeing thats all that matters in this game right now.

[Zeh]

His score will go down from losing. Don't know wtf you're talking about BillyM.

About the OP. Your ELO probably isn't that great. Do you have at least a 65%+ win ratio post-ELO? If not, I doubt you're having the problem of "high ELO". I have high ELO, and I get nothing but good players on my team, and on the other team. I'm betting you have the problem of "mediocre ELO", which means sometimes you get great players, sometimes you get noobs.

Tanking your ELO won't give you better players on your teams. It will just put you with crappier players more often. Good luck with that.

[Heffay]

Is this really a thing, or is the OP making things up?

[Lyrik]

Where did you see that your Elo can't go down?

Pugging will always be a game of luck when it comes down to your teammates. In every ******* MMO I ever played. Starting with MUD to UltimaOnline to Larp to WoW to Crysis2 to Uncharted to StarTrekOnline etc drekcetera

No matchmaking in the world will make up for Luck, bad days or plain stupidity.

[Dr Killinger]

FerretGR, on 13 March 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

So basically, your friend started running into competition, and now he's not having fun?

QFT. Trying to reset your Elo score is pretty... um... I can't think of a nice word.

[Sears]

Also your friend should realise that he has four Elo scores, one for each weight class. Suiciding in Lighs and mediums will do nothing to his Assault Elo. Just sayin'

I can imagine this kind of suicide grinding is also against the terms of service like it was when R&R was in.

So if you see anyone doing it report them to support@mwomercs.com

Edited by Sears, 13 March 2013 - 08:23 AM.

[Xendojo]

Wait....what?


Is this a real thread?

[SC1P1O]

I agree with the four useless teammates, I have had so many matches where bottom four guys do 80 or less damage. Doesn't matter how good you are if your pugs drop that fast the odds are stacked against you.

Not to mention these guys are bad enough that they ignore your advice and run off in 2 directions then die. Quite fustrating

Edited by SC1P1O, 13 March 2013 - 08:25 AM.

[Mackman]

Lyrik, on 13 March 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

Pugging will always be a game of luck when it comes down to your teammates. In every ******* MMO I ever played. Starting with MUD to UltimaOnline to Larp to WoW to Crysis2 to Uncharted to StarTrekOnline etc drekcetera

No matchmaking in the world will make up for Luck, bad days or plain stupidity.

So you're saying that League of Legends did not become one of the most played games in the world by relying on Elo matchmaking? You're saying that they've been using an ineffective matchmaker for... what is it now, three or four years at least?

Every game will not be close: You're right about that much. But Elo will result in each player getting more equally-matched games on a consistent basis.

Also, am I to understand from your last comment that you don't want any matchmaking at all? Because if so, then I can rest easy knowing that your opinion on how to make competitive games fun for everybody is effectively worthless.

[Padic]

Glythe, on 13 March 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

I don't want easy games I want fair games. It's almost impossible to win with a group of 4 high ranked players (who are actually as good as their Elo) if you repeatedly do not get matched against equal enemies. The game compensates with 4 scrubs and puts you against 8 players who are all pretty good. If you can only play during off hours this is a huge problem because you never get 16 similarly skilled players and a mismatch occurs game after game.....

This is a lie.

Elo is not trying to create balanced matches by generating an "average" Elo. It is trying to make matches by pinning together a bunch of people who have close to the same Elo.

But don't take my word for it.
http://mwomercs.com/...-making-update/

"Q: How does the match maker compose a teams Elo rating, is it average rating or closest to a target?

A: It's closest to a target value, so the match maker starts trying to make a match for an Elo of say 1300 and will pull in players to those teams closest to those values; however, as mentioned earlier within growing thresholds and those curves will be tuned. Currently it may be a bit 'sloppy' about how it's filling those buckets but over time it will be tuned to be much more precise."

[MischiefSC]

Elo is going to push you to a 50/50 win/loss rate. This is hard for a lot of people to get used to, especially after the pugstomping days of 70 to 80% winning. So your friend is trying to fail until he gets back down to tons of wins again for a bit... then will skyrocket back up.

Whatever floats your boat to be honest. Matchmaking will push you to 50/50. Saying that somehow it knows when balancing to always put the bad teammates on your side is called 'magical thinking'. The other team has the exact same issue you do with the exact same frequency both in terms of weight mismatch or skill mismatch.

50% win/loss. That's where you're going to end up in Elo. that is exactly how the system works. If you want to be able to pugstomp you're in the wrong game. That's not coming back. Saying it's a flaw in the matchmaker is erroneous. That's exactly as intended.

[Livewyr]

Here's how to test if ELO is working.

Play a game where you're at.. note the competitiveness of the play (and the outcome, but that isn't as important)
Then make a new account and grab a trial mech.. note the competitiveness of play there (and certainly not the outcome)

There is a drastic difference.

Landslides are being caused by distribution of a few things: ECM, Missiles, Ravens, AC20 Cats, Splatcats, PPC Snipers, Jump Snipers, and things like that..

Edited by Livewyr, 13 March 2013 - 08:32 AM.